Perhaps another example of what might go on the gaslighting end of the spectrum would be the psychoanalytic term "projective identification". This is when someone gets you to feel what they’re feeling by acting as if you're the embodiment of that which they're trying to get out of themselves. For example, it could entail relating to another as if they're completely at fault for something (to get the other person to carry the guilt instead of them). It's not typically done with conscious intent, but there's a complete disregard for the truth, as the whole point is to coerce another to feel and carry out feelings they desperately wish to disavow or diminish within themselves.
Couldn't help but contemplate the Tower of Babel when reading this... will AI engines be the new means in which this "tower" could be reconstructed? A tower of bricks and mortar replaced with bullshit and gaslighting?
the image that comes to mind is something like a paraphrase of Matthew 7:
"And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his Tower upon a pile of excrement: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that Tower; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."
so indeed, "Woe unto this generation." but of course, it also befalls us to redeem it. the redemption of the Fall of Babel comes in the form of "tongues of fire" that visit on people and inspire them with the Word of Truth that is intelligible to everyone irrespective of sundry languages:
Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. "And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?"
This is a fun topic Max. Contemporaneous, to be exact. We live in a world steeped in bullshit. Not suddenly, but apparently suddenly, thanks to the amount of it we are exposed to now. I’m reminded of that scene in Back to the Future where Biff and his buddies get buried in a load of manure in their car. That’s us now. Buried in bullshit.
But here is a question I have asked myself for some time now. Why does the Bible begin with bullshit? The definition you give ; “But bullshit is speech that has been essentially untethered from its ostensible import while seeming to remain firmly bound to it.” is a perfect description of the lie told told by the Serpent. I’m not proposing that I know why the story begins this way, but I do see a pattern of unravelling bullshit all throughout the Bible. It’s as if our first tottering steps into the world are marked by stepping into a pile of steaming bullshit.
All I will say, at this point, is that I have some ideas about it, Good, True and Beautiful ideas and that I think it’s worth thinking about.
Perhaps another example of what might go on the gaslighting end of the spectrum would be the psychoanalytic term "projective identification". This is when someone gets you to feel what they’re feeling by acting as if you're the embodiment of that which they're trying to get out of themselves. For example, it could entail relating to another as if they're completely at fault for something (to get the other person to carry the guilt instead of them). It's not typically done with conscious intent, but there's a complete disregard for the truth, as the whole point is to coerce another to feel and carry out feelings they desperately wish to disavow or diminish within themselves.
that's helpful. it must be the same principle that appears as the scapegoat mechanism in another aspect.
Couldn't help but contemplate the Tower of Babel when reading this... will AI engines be the new means in which this "tower" could be reconstructed? A tower of bricks and mortar replaced with bullshit and gaslighting?
the image that comes to mind is something like a paraphrase of Matthew 7:
"And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his Tower upon a pile of excrement: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that Tower; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."
so indeed, "Woe unto this generation." but of course, it also befalls us to redeem it. the redemption of the Fall of Babel comes in the form of "tongues of fire" that visit on people and inspire them with the Word of Truth that is intelligible to everyone irrespective of sundry languages:
Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. "And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?"
There seems to be many forms of language. I never knew existed until recently. Thank you so much for your insight into it.
many forms, and many intentions that belie their forms
This is a fun topic Max. Contemporaneous, to be exact. We live in a world steeped in bullshit. Not suddenly, but apparently suddenly, thanks to the amount of it we are exposed to now. I’m reminded of that scene in Back to the Future where Biff and his buddies get buried in a load of manure in their car. That’s us now. Buried in bullshit.
But here is a question I have asked myself for some time now. Why does the Bible begin with bullshit? The definition you give ; “But bullshit is speech that has been essentially untethered from its ostensible import while seeming to remain firmly bound to it.” is a perfect description of the lie told told by the Serpent. I’m not proposing that I know why the story begins this way, but I do see a pattern of unravelling bullshit all throughout the Bible. It’s as if our first tottering steps into the world are marked by stepping into a pile of steaming bullshit.
All I will say, at this point, is that I have some ideas about it, Good, True and Beautiful ideas and that I think it’s worth thinking about.